SHORT HAND

In the third episode of Short Hand, we’re asking producers what it is they do, how they learned they could do it and where they find people and projects to work with. You’ll hear from short film producers Mia Xerri (X to X), Iria Pizania (Talent Executive, Short Circuit), Sophie Reynolds (Vert, Enjoy), Helen Simmons (F*ck, Swan) and Loran Dunn (Lambing Season, Doggerland, Shagbands).

Topics covered include: reaching out and networking with other producers, adaptability, the skills you need to produce, the experience you need to apply to the fund, finding collaborators at your level, having a creative vision and taking risks.

I mean, when you’re starting out and you don’t have any contacts, and chances are, you don’t have any experience or actually you do have some experience, you just don’t have the title and the credit. But if you think about it, who was born with a credit to their name? No-one. So you’re part of a very big group of people who don’t quite know where they’re going and what they’re doing, but they’re trying to learn.
Iria Pizania

SHOW NOTES & RESOURCES

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Short Hand: Hello, you’re listening to SHORT HAND – a BFI NETWORK and Film Hub South East podcast. Whether you’re actively making a short film or just passively thinking about it, this is a podcast designed to help you on the journey from coming up with a compelling short film idea to editing it into a finished product. In this third episode, we’re talking to producers about what exactly their job is, how they found out they could do it and how they discovered people and projects they wanted to work with.

Mia Xerri: So I started producing about maybe six or seven years ago. So I’ve been working in video production and film production for about 12 years. And I’d always loved film and knew that it was something that I wanted to do. So once I graduated from university, I got a production assistant role in a video production company. And it was just about the time when YouTube and Facebook exploded. So what tended to happen was the kind of work that I was doing as a sort of production manager producer was corporate film brand film, because every business in the world suddenly wanted a video on YouTube. So that’s kind of how I kind of got into sort of producing and realised are actually this is a really good role for me and my personality and skillset.

Short Hand: That’s Mia Xerri, a producer mostly working in branded content who recently produced a BFI NETWORK-funded narrative short called ‘X to X’ with writer-director Lily Gwynne Thomas and co-producer Precious Mahaga. You’re about to hear her talk about her path to producing and how her work in commercials prepared her for a transition to narrative, as well as how she teamed up with Lily, why getting to know each other was key and what her relationship with co-producer Precious was like.

Mia Xerri: I worked within corporate and branded film for a good kind of five or six years and had been doing sort of short film projects and lifestyle stuff on the side. But I would say that I kind of always had a hunger to want to work on narrative-led projects. And that was always what excited me the most. And I’d been working a lot of commercials and building my way into producing in that kind of world, but I saw American Honey and it just kind of blew me away so much and was like wow, that is such a good film that I thought I’ve got to do it, I’ve got to push to kind of do this, to do narrative film and to do what I really love. So that kind of gave me a little bit of a push. And through sort of networking, I got in touch with a creative producer called Julia Berg and did some kind of script development and project development sessions with her and she suggested speaking to the BFI and I initially went to the BFI with a project of my own but as a little bit of a newbie, what they said was go away, do a couple of projects as a producer first, and then come back to us with your own idea, which is really great, because they gave that support from the beginning and I started my journey from there and then obviously started my first proper short film supported by BFI NETWORK, which is X to X.

So I would definitely say that my experience in corporate film, commercials and branded film feeds a lot into what I do within narrative. I always saw them as really strictly very different worlds. But actually all of my experiences are all things where I’ve learned mistakes and made contacts with crew and all fed into me producing my first short film. I think one of the things as well was that within commercials and branded film, often I’m working to really, really tight turnarounds. So we’d kind of have a project, shoot it, deliver it within two, three weeks. So all of a sudden, once I’ve kind of delved into sort of the narrative short film world, it was like, wow, I’ve got loads of time. We can really spend our time developing it and thinking about it, which was really nice and was a really positive experience.

X to X , which is my BFI-supported short film came about after meeting and starting that relationship with the director, Lily Gwynne-Thomas. My BFI NETWORK representative for the South East actually introduced us. Lily had gone to them with a project and said, you know, this is something I’m really excited about and I’d love BFI to support it, but I need a producer. And they said, Well, we have a producer actually that is looking to take on more short films, why don’t the two of you meet. So they introduced us which is lovely. Strangely, actually, Lily and I had connected about a year before that via another networking platform, which is quite strange. So in my head, I sort of think, Oh, it was meant to be that we would work together. We had an initial phone call, where Lily explained the project and how long she’d been working on it. Something that I think I really appreciated with, with those kind of early conversations was that Lily took a lot of time to explain what she was looking for in a producer and how important a producer is to her and in this project, and I think something that always sticks in my mind is that she said she was looking for her right-hand woman. And I think that was something that just really stuck with me, you know, it wasn’t somebody just to look after the money and organise everybody, she was really looking for somebody to help her develop it and it’d be the best project that it could be.

So she’d been speaking to myself and she was also introduced to Precious Mahaga who was my co-producer. And she’d spoken to both of us individually. So we had a couple of phone calls, sharing scripts, sharing the treatment, and she actually really wanted to work with the both of us. So she asked both of us to co-produce on it. And all of that was kind of done by various phone conversations. We took the time to kind of really speak to each other, not just send an email saying, you know, will you be my producer, we kind of got to know each other, which I think was quite important. I really, really enjoyed co-producing this one, especially for my first BFI short film and proper narrative short film, for that matter. It was quite an ambitious project. And there were lots of moving parts. So with X to X, we had one actress playing twins, we so we had some VFX, we had a set build, kind of an ambitious crew, it really was fantastic to have that person in Precious and it to really feel like a duo that have each other’s backs and tag team. It was really fantastic to be able to kind of pass the baton backwards and forwards and also, I think, again, for for my first short film, I suspect for anybody who is embarking on their first short film, having that other person with them to bounce ideas off to share to say, Look, I’m not going mad, am I? This is ridiculous. Or I have no idea what kind of template the casting director is asking for here. And to problem solve all of those things together. I think it can, obviously it doesn’t work with everybody co-producing, and there are some producers who probably would prefer to be the only one but I think for this, it worked so brilliantly having two of us together and the support that came with it. I really feel it had a really positive impact on the project and essentially made it happen really.

I’d say we obviously leant on BFI a lot for advice and guidance. And they were really fantastic with connecting us to people that we could have further conversations with, you know, whether that’s lawyers or other producers or, but I would say for both of us, you know, we did reach out to other producers a lot it within our network, and I think producer to producer that is such a strength. I think being a producer can feel a little bit like you’re sort of steering the ship on your own. And it’s down to you to solve everything. And it can be quite a lot of pressure. But I think when producers talk to each other, it’s brilliant. And I think that level of support is there because we’ve all been through the same thing. So other producers did sort of support and help us lots and keep us going.

Short Hand: Next up, Mia expands on how she is involved creatively as a producer, whether there’s anything about the role of producer that she wasn’t expecting and what her advice for producers looking to apply to the next round of funding would be…

Mia Xerri: As a producer, something that I really enjoyed and enjoyed discovering with working on my first short film was the creative input that is possible as a producer. I think something which I learned was that it really is a role that is kind of 50% creative input and 50% logistics and management. Something that we did as a trio, was all share ideas or share feedback and Lily from the very beginning made it very clear that she valued our opinion and she valued our experience and perspective. And we all kind of shared a common goal of we want this to be the best project it can be and we want to push the script to be the best script it can be.

I think something that was quite interesting embarking on this project was obviously just how much problem-solving you have to do, but also the amount of flexibility that is needed to problem-solve. I think that short film projects are always ambitious, they’re always really exciting but I think what was required of all of us was to really adapt constantly. And I think that staying true to the idea and staying true to the project into the director’s vision, whilst managing, you know, a whole host of things which are changing constantly, and unavailability and asking favours and things like that, it’s a tricky thing to balance. That level of adaptability was something that I didn’t quite expect. But I also think that it was also a really fantastic opportunity for us to learn about the short film world. And it really was a proper crash course. You know, for me, certainly in a lot of the kind of documents and formalities that, you know, I hadn’t expected to learn quite so much. So my advice to upcoming producers or producers who are looking to apply for funding and embark on their first short film project, would be to kind of remember that problem solving is normal, and things changing along the way constantly is normal. And I think if you can be adaptable, that’s great. And I think if you can strike a balance between staying excited about the project, staying excited about what you’re doing with a kind of healthy dose of – don’t worry, we might not be able to do this how we wanted to originally, but here’s a way we can make it brilliant. Here’s another way we can do it – balancing those two, I think that’s when you know, you’ll nail anything going forwards.

Iria Pizania: So for me, producing was never really a moment of a big decision. Although there were times where I thought, right, this is what I want to do, this is the job for me, this is the lifestyle I want to have, because we all have a perceived lifestyle of what other people’s jobs and lives look like. But in reality, it was more of a series of small decisions and small choices that I was making along the way. So from a very young age, I realised that I love cinema and the way it can transport you and the way it would help me see other worlds and understand or potentially try and understand other people.

Short Hand: That’s Iria Pizania, an independent producer whose work spans shorts, features, live performance and theatre and who is also a Talent Executive for Short Circuit – the film talent initiative for Scotland delivered by Film City Futures in partnership with Glasgow Film, and funded by The National Lottery through Screen Scotland and BFI NETWORK. You’re about to hear her discuss how she got into producing, how to build confidence as a producer, why knowing everything or pretending to know everything is a disadvantage and the skills that you might need to do your job well.

Iria Pizania: I went to Kingston University and I studied filmmaking. And then I worked a little bit with others, I directed, I worked, I tried sound, I was a 1st AD in short films. So I tried my hand in a lot of different things. And then producing ended up being the thing that I always did irrespective of my official role. I found myself mostly line-producing, working on the budget, working out a schedule and trying to keep to it. I was very good at focusing on the things that had to be in place so that the film happens. And I also liked working a lot with people. I worked as an editor for a little bit. And I realised that, for me, spending most of my working life in a dark room was not very fulfilling. I wanted to work with a lot of others. I ended up producing for friends, I got into a lot of conversations with other creatives about ideas or stories that they were developing. And as we were developing the story, I then started putting on my more practical hat and telling everybody, right, if we want to do X, we need to have Y and we need to do that. And then all of a sudden, I was making spreadsheets and all of a sudden I was contacting friends to come on board. I think that was probably the only conscious decision I ever made of, I’m producing this and I’m now doing that.

I mean, when you’re starting out and you don’t have any contacts and chances are you don’t have any experience or actually you do have some experience, you just don’t have the title and the credit. But if you think about it, who was born with a credit to their name and the knowledge and experience of making a film, whether it’s a short film or a feature film, or a TV series, or a podcast, or whatever it is? No-one has. So you’re part of a very big group of people who don’t quite know where they’re going and what they’re doing, but they’re trying to learn. And I think one thing to always remember is that you’re not alone. And you can ask for help. So when you’re starting out, you already have a network of people, they might not be the influential people that you think. But actually, you don’t need them. What you need is people at your own level, that can understand where you’re at and what you’re trying to do. And they can just come and help.

I think in terms of instilling confidence in yourself and what you can do, preparation is key for me. Google, as sad as it sounds, is your best friend. Because you can go online and just find templates to everything and find step-by-step guidance on what you need to put together. And at the same time, you know, you can email organisations like the BFI NETWORK, like Short Circuit. For example, at Short Circuit, we one-to-one surgeries and if you want to call us up and say, Look, I’m not asking for funding yet, because I’ve never done anything before and I don’t quite know what I’m doing, do you have a guide as to what I need to have in place? We’re more than happy to have a chat with you, and just tell you, Here’s 1,2,3,4,5 things you need to have in place, go and have fun. And if you try to convince everybody that you know everything, and you’ve got everything under control, and then you turn up on-set and you don’t, you’re gonna lose them. But if you bring people on from the beginning with a very honest and clear understanding that you’re learning; This is what I have, I want us to do this together. This is my first film, would you please join me? I’m pretty sure people would follow and people would come and say, yep, I have a day to lend a helping hand.

If you’re trying to convince the BFI NETWORK or Short Circuit, I have to say that some of our best films are from people who acknowledged that they had gaps in their knowledge. And they said, we’d love your guidance, we’d love you to help us or help us find somebody who can help us. But they came prepared. So they knew their story. They knew what they wanted to do. They knew who their team was, or who was in their team, or who wasn’t even in their team that they needed to get on board.

In terms of skills that are needed for somebody to be a producer, I think the first thing is to have an open mind. I think soft skills are very much needed for producers, to have an open mind and the ability to talk to people and hear their point of view and try and bring everybody together in that way. Equally, I think it’s important to remember that producers are allowed to ask for help. As I said before, that’s totally fine, it’s actually encouraged. Another thing would be the ability to turn your attention to a lot of different things within a very short space of time. A cast member might be asking you for something, while at the same time, you know, the generator is not working, and everybody’s gonna come to you. And these are two completely different asks, but you’re gonna have to turn your attention to both things. So it’s just being able to learn on the go and try and keep a cool head. In every job that I’ve been on, there have been moments where I thought, Oh, God, I wish I had known that, but it’s just part of the life of being a producer, where you need to accept that every day you will be learning something and every day, that will be a question that you don’t quite know how to answer. And that’s fine. Producers don’t need to be Gods and know everything. I have a couple of friends almost on speed dial who I’m thinking, I don’t know what that means. And I called them up and said, Do you know what this means? Or do you know anybody who might know what this means?

Short Hand: Iria also shares her perspective on assessing which projects or collaborators are right for you and what she and the Short Circuit team take into consideration when assessing applications.

Iria Pizania: If you’re thinking of committing yourself to a project, I think the first thing to think about is do you like the story? Do you understand the story? Do you feel that it’s something that you’d like your name to be attached to? Because if you don’t, chances are you’re not really going to do a very good job. You’re not gonna be as invested in it. Think about is it something that I can believe in? And also can I work with the person that’s written and or directing it? Because this person or these people are going to be the people that you’re working very, very closely with, and that you’re going to have to support. Now if you can’t stand the sight of them, probably not the best choice for you, even if the idea is groundbreaking, but if you can’t stand the sight of them, you can’t work on it.

At Short Circuit, when we are commissioning, what we’re what we’re looking for in terms of story, the more you can tell, the clearer your idea is, the better in terms of you and the team. We will be looking for people who have done some films before, potentially very low-budget or no budget, that show that they have a vision. It doesn’t have to be the best film that we’ll ever see. And we don’t really expect that in terms of the film that you want to make. We would need to know that you have a bit of vision, and you can put that forward both on the page and on the screen. That’s essentially what we’re asking for.

One of the producers on our current slate, they don’t have huge amounts of experience. But the way they have come across and they have pitched themselves is that they’re super driven. And they went out and found executive producers that could support them and fill in the gaps. That’s brilliant. I think particularly in producers, it doesn’t have to be somebody who’s produced loads of short films, but if somebody has worked in events, or they have produced I don’t know, theatre, or whatever it is, but can have those transferable skills to work on a short, that’s great for us.

Sophie Reynolds: Producing is an all-encompassing, jack-of-all-trades role. And it’s a very hard one to understand. I always explain it, and maybe it’s not the right analogy, but almost like a football manager that chooses the team players and does the strategy and oversees the whole thing. A producer is five steps backwards, seeing the whole thing from beginning to end. Their responsibilities can be anything from financial, raising the funds to coming up with the idea to finding the idea to then finding the right writer, the right director, and seeing the film all the way through to festival strategy, marketing strategy and getting it in front of the audience.

Short Hand: That’s Sophie Reynolds, an independent producer and one-third of the founding members of Producers Roundtable, a collective advocating for a fairer and more accessible producing infrastructure in the UK film industry. Sophie is joined by fellow founding members and producers Helen Simmons, whose voice you’ll hear next, followed by Loran Dunn, who are here to talk about what producing is. What your responsibilities as a producer are and what you have to manage, negotiate, think about and facilitate…

Helen Simmons: You don’t realise until you’re doing it all the other little random jobs that you end up taking, like therapist and diplomat. And, you know, there’s a lot of emotional work that goes into producing that I think we don’t talk about as much, but it’s like, really, really integral day-to-day. So being able to deal with lots of people, and have those relationships and manage problems and personalities. And all of that is like quite a big chunk of what we do.

Loran Dunn: Alongside the creative and practical business, being a producer is about vision. And it’s about being able to identify an incredible idea or a brilliant story really early on. And it’s kind of like its development, and then take that and make it the best version of what it can be. And bring in all the right people around that to kind of facilitate making it the best version of what it can be. So it’s been involved from really, really, really early on, right the way through the whole lifecycle of the film to the other end of thinking about who’s actually going to watch this film. And thinking about that at the beginning.

And I think the key thing that took me a really long time to understand about producing is about finding your own voice as a producer. And quite often we think of producers as facilitating other creative people. But I think it’s really important to decide and identify what your voice is as a producer, what the story is that you want to tell. You’ve got to be a detective for stories, you’ve got to be looking everywhere for stories that resonate with you because it’s such a huge investment to be a producer. You pour so much time and energy into it, that it has to be a story that you really believe in. A common misconception is like not understanding that it’s about you having your own creative vision for the films that you want to make and that is what makes a fantastic producer. I often liken film producers to music producers. We have a very good understanding that artists go to music producers for their particular sound. And we can hear what music producers sound like in their records. But I think film producers are the same. And actually, if you look at a film producers back catalogue, you can see the same sound within that.

Short Hand: One of the elements of the BFI Short Film Fund application is demonstrating a creative track record. Helen, Loran and Sophie discuss their own paths to producing and continue Iria’s point about transferable skills and why you don’t have to have produced lots of short films to be able to do it…

Helen Simmons: There’s lots of different skills and ways to be creative within it. So you could have done all sorts of things. I mean, when I was a student I ran a photography society, I ran a film festival. Anything that’s just interesting demonstrates you seeing a project through from start to finish, be that like a blog, or a website, or a group that you’ve set up. A lot of producing is perseverance, so if you can do that, and something creative, or even not creative, but you know, just demonstrate that you’ve got the ability to kind of lead people and lead something through from start to finish. I think that’s always really good.

Loran Dunn: I would just add to that, I think that’s really key thing is like, as a producer, you need to be somebody who can make things happen. So it’s about thinking about what do you have that you can demonstrate other things that you’ve done, the way you’ve really made things happen, whether that’s putting on an event or an exhibition, or organising something that’s great to see. But I think also it’s about being able to identify yourself as a tastemaker. So how can you show that you’ve got great taste, and you really know what good ideas look like. Something I did starting out, I went to art school. And there was a kind of a bunch of people there that I thought were really fantastic. And I kind of set up a collective. There was just all of the people that I thought were really fantastically talented all under one name and on a website. And then we kind of had, you know, a social media presence. And it was just me basically talking about what everybody within the collective was doing. But that was really, really useful later on, for me to demonstrate, okay, look, all these people have gone on to do fantastic things, and I was able to pick them out really early on.

Sophie Reynolds: I also think the word creative can be very alienating, and actually, it’s quite a privilege. It took me ages to realise I could do a job that was creative, I think I probably realised that when I was like 24, or something, because no one around me did that. So I think don’t get scared about the word creative and actually see what all of those things can mean to accumulate. But even just an interest, I think for a short film, if you’re interested in films, and you’ve done a bit of organising or pulling together, I mean, I worked in admin for ages. Like that, for me, would be enough to give you a chance of making a short film. And it is a thing that you learn on the go. And I think people when they get confident as producers, they start calling themselves creative producers. But it does take a while to realise your own creative skills.

Short Hand: In the next segment, Loran, Sophie and Helen talk about how they found like-minded people to start making work with, what you can do to put yourself out there and as corny as it sounds, why friendship should come first.

Loran Dunn: I have quite a creative background. So like I was very involved in theatre, and I met a bunch of brilliant people there. And we were making films together. And then I went to art school. And that was a really amazing testing ground as well. And a way to find like-minded people, we all had a kind of creative training in like, you know, coming up with ideas. So that was a real privilege. But I think that there are other ways that you can replicate that. There are loads of organisations, there are loads of events and things you can go to, like, for example, the Film Hubs are fantastic at offering opportunities to meet other filmmakers, chat to them, and find people that you’re kind of on a level with. I think also film festivals. I know it’s been a bit of a weird time over the last couple of years. But some of the most incredible relationships I’ve made have come from via film festivals. It’s about making friends as much as anything. BFI Flare was like a massive kind of experience the first time I went there, I’ve never I’ve never really met kind of really cool queer, like creative people before and that was just like, wow, this is amazing. And similarly like Edinburgh Film Festival, I think is such a fun and friendly film festival that I’ve met loads of people, llike Sophie. I’ve met loads of great people there that I still have like great relationships with so I think it’s about putting yourself out there and doing a little bit of research about where kind of like-minded people might be hanging out and then just going and making friends basically,

Sophie Reynolds: Me and Helen met on, this is our favourite story, but we met on the floor of an Avengers film where Helen was cleaning with an industrial cleaner, a shopping mall floor and I was sitting in a lift just pressing up and down for the crew. We were location marshals, and you know location marshals are so far from the action. But I did meet one of my best film friends doing that. So I am a real big advocate for getting as much film and TV experience as you possibly can. Even if you know you don’t want to be crew, ultimately, I think you meet people, like other runners, your peers. Growing up with your peers is super important. So meeting people at a similar sort of level, like entry level, I think is really important. And also you just get to see how it all works. Anything that allows you to understand each and every aspect, including the location marshalling of it, I think, is really useful, and you will inevitably meet really good contacts.

Helen Simmons: But then also, I think you have to kind of look, just look around you and not see people as the role that they’re in right now, not be snobby, sort of just be very open-minded about what people want to be, even if right now they’re like sitting in the lift or whatever. Like we all do those jobs, and we all start in those places. But that doesn’t mean that we don’t have the ambition to do more. So keep your eyes open.

Loran Dunn: The other place is Twitter. The industry is on Twitter. And I think just be part of the conversation. Watch short films, find filmmakers you like on Twitter, follow them, and just be part of the conversation. This is a fantastic place where it’s actually totally fine to have really casual conversations with other people in the industry. And everybody’s very kind, welcoming and chatty. And I think that’s a great place to just get to know the wider network. And certainly for someone like me, you know, I’m based in Manchester. And it was very daunting when I was starting out to know how to navigate this very London-centric industry and social media can really be your friend in that sense, I think.

Short Hand: Finally, Sophie kicks off by discussing why she’d wished she’d set up her own company sooner (something we’ll be delving into more in next week’s episode) and then Helen and Loran bust some myths about producing and why financial limitations can be creatively freeing. The trio also offer their advice for aspiring producers and why you should go for it…

Sophie Reynolds: I didn’t know when I was producing shorts initially that I had to set up my own company. And so I was joining other people’s short films as a producer, but just listed as a named producer, not with my company. And I think I made about three short films until I realised I had to set up my own company. So set up your own company! It’s super easy-to-do through Companies House. It needs to be a limited company if you’re getting public funding. The other thing that I don’t think is spoken about is I think it’s very easy to be like a total martyr as a producer as you’re starting out. But actually, you can’t do everything. And I would line produce initially, my early short films, and I was so much of a better producer when I was able to outsource that and get a line producer. So if you’ve got the money, and even if you don’t really try and get the support you need, you’re not being like a diva, you’re just trying to do your job properly, and you won’t be able to be there as support for the director if you’re outside driving a van, or if there’s multiple producers, then you can do that. But if it’s just you by yourself, you can’t be everywhere at all times. So just think about what you’re going to be doing on set and how you’re going to be able to do your job.

Helen Simmons: I think when I was starting, I don’t know what it’s like now with shorts, there was sort of an idea of like, bigger is better. And I think what I’ve learned in shorts anyway, is that that’s not the case. And like, often simplicity and brevity is what works. And I think sometimes that’s comforting when you’re starting out because people are like, Oh, if I don’t get that 15 grand or whatever from this fund, then I can’t make anything and I’m stuck. But actually, often the shorts that can do well don’t cost that much at all. And if you use those kinds of creative constraints, or financial constraints to be creative, you might come up with something that is really good.

Loran Dunn: I’d say quite similar to that, you know, before I was before I got funding, I was working in production as working as a production coordinator. So when I moved into actually getting some money, I was like, I’m going to do such an exceptional job. I know all the crew, I know how to really squeeze every penny out of a budget and I feel like you could just move mountains. I feel like you know, it’s a superpower if you’re great at production, you know, and a lot of us can do it. And I felt like that it was like getting the incredible camera package deal, it was like securing the locations for basically no money, it was like getting the incredible HODs, when actually, it’s not any of that stuff.

That stuff is great if you can do it, but it’s really about what is the story? What is the idea? And actually that’s got nothing to do with budgets or resource. And I think we forget sometimes that short films are about taking risks. It’s about having fun. It’s about showing us what you can do. It’s about bringing a little slice of something really incredible, unusual and brilliant and unique. And I think that is like way better to pour your time into figuring out firstly, is it a project that can do that? Or how can I make it more like that than really stressing about, it’s only going to be good if I can get the best lenses and the biggest camera deal. It’s just irrelevant. I think when you don’t have a lot of money but when you have loads of freedom, it takes the pressure off, because you’re like, well, we could do anything and it doesn’t really matter. If you’ve got like 60,000 pounds on your back, that’s like a lot of pressure. So sometimes having no money is way better than having loads of money because you get way, way more creative freedom,

Sophie Reynolds: Trust your gut. And also one that I’ve really learnt and I now only do is only work with nice people, if you know that person is not nice, doesn’t matter how talented they are, doesn’t matter how much smoke has been blown up their ass, it is not worth the pain.

Helen Simmons: I’m gonna use this as an opportunity to big up the job of producing because I think that when you’re starting out, it’s always about, like, how exciting it isto direct or write or act or whatever. And actually, I just think producing is really brilliant. And it’s really, really hard, which is why maybe people do it less. And it’s sort of more difficult to ldefine. And there’s so much to it, which is difficult. But I also think there is nothing better than being able to build something like a company and build a place where you can just bring all these people on these projects together and create amazing things and make change in an industry which is very, very slow to make change. Just be excited about what being a producer in the long run could mean, to be able to just have that amount of control over your career and your projects and build a sort of brand of what kind of thing you want to make. I just think that’s there’s nothing like it.

Loran Dunn: I think firstly, don’t wait for permission. We feel like we need gatekeepers to tell us we’re allowed to do something and that’s just not true. I think you’re going to hear ‘no’ more than you’re gonna hear ‘yes’. And I think don’t let that deter you. You’ve got to back yourself. And that can be really hard. But I think as long as you’re backing yourself, just use those kinds of rejections to fuel the kind of drive to move forward. I mean, like we all have received so many rejections. But it does just kind of make me more hungry to prove everybody wrong. And I think let that be a fire beneath you. Don’t wait for permission. You know, trust yourself, you know if it’s good, you know if it’s going to be worth making, so don’t wait for somebody else to tell you that it’s okay to make it. Be prolific. I think as you’re starting out in your career, it’s a really fantastic time to take loads of risks, take on loads of opportunities, do loads of things, find out who you are, as a filmmaker and what you want to do. You’ve got nothing to lose at that point, so I just feel like Go for it.

Short Hand: Thank you for listening to Short Hand. Look out for a new episode next week that will focus on budgeting; where to start, what to put it in and how not to go over it. Thank you to our guests this week: Mia Xerri, Iria Pizania, Helen Simmons, Sophie Reynolds and Loran Dunn.